Mondelēz International's VP of Brand Oreo Matt Foley Talks BTS Brand Collaboration

Matt Foley (00:00)

I'm Matt Foley, the VP of Oreo, and you're listening to an episode of the CPG Guys.

Sri (00:27)

Hello and welcome to this episode of the CPG Guys Podcast. I'm of course Sri your co-host and also CRO and co-founder of ThinkBlue Consulting, your trusted partner in your omnichannel development journey, where you can get in touch with me at Sri@thinkblueconsulting.co. Please do listen to my older daughter's music at www.rhearaj.com and follow Lara Raj. My younger daughter is a member of the world's fastest growing global girls pop group, Katseye.

They have just come off a clean sweep at the AMAs, three nominations, three awards. I gotta spend time with the entire Hybe Asia team. And this episode is actually a very special one. Cause we're gonna talk about a band and a creation of a product. And I actually gotta hang out with them.

And meet the brains behind the making of it. So I can't wait. But Peter, I'm of course joined by my co-host and co-founder, who also moonlights as head of industry and client engagement at Flywheel, the Commerce Acceleration Division of Omnicom. Peter, at the time of release of this episode, can would be behind us, but we got something big upcoming at Cornell with the programming on Commerce Media, exec ed program. Share more, man.

Peter Bond (01:35)

Well, before I do that, I'll mention of one of the one of the reasons this episode is important to me. It has reminded me that I need to stop by the grocery store and pick something up for our dear friend Jacqui Donowski, co-host of the SheCommerce podcast with our friend Cristina Marinucci. Do you know what those items are, Sheree? Do you know what her delicacy is being a a gluten intolerant person? Do you know what she asked me to stop by and

Sri (01:58)

Wait wait a

minute, Peter. Doesn't her podcast partner work for the company we're gonna talk to today?

Peter Bond (02:03)

She duh it

does. indeed. And she asked me to procur pro She is. She is. She asked me to procure for her as many different flavors of gluten free Oreos as I could get my hands on. So I think I have one suitcase that's just devoted to gluten free Oreo cookies. But that is that's not my thing.

Matt Foley (02:04)

Mm.

Sri (02:06)

Isn't she like an insights captain?

Look, I'm nothing

against people who can't have gluten. I mean if you have celiac you have a issue you can't have it, but a real Oreo cookie should be enjoyed with wheat flour. I'm sorry.

Peter Bond (02:26)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know. You know what? This it just opens the brand up to so many more people. We'll take that somewhere else. But Shree, actually, what I Okay. So Sri, what the the other thing you mentioned is you and I are getting excited. We're heading to upstate New York at the end of July. First, we're going to head to the baseball hall of fame to go to the induction ceremony. I think there are two people, Andrew Jones and one other. ⁓ big event. It's I've been up seven or eight times, but this will be your first, so it'll be good time. And then of course, we're off to Cornell University where we will be teaching.

Sri (02:38)

I'm not disagreeing. You're you're not I'm not disagreeing.

That's like a bucketless moment, man. I'm like so excited.

Peter Bond (03:03)

The the the Omni Commerce Leadership Program. This is the second year we've been working with Cornell and developing an educational curriculum. We've got about eighty of the most senior leaders in retail media, commerce, advertising ecosystem. It's gonna be a fantastic five days in beautiful Ithaca in the summer. It's phenomenal, Sry. Looking forward to it.

Sri (03:25)

Thank you so much, Peter. And to our audience, make sure you're subscribing to our podcast on your personal listening platform where you can get our latest episodes and go back and consume some of the 600. Yeah, I'm not joking, 600 plus episodes we've already published. Of course, you did listen to our Fortune 500 C-suite series, didn't you? Which featured CEOs, CCOs, CMOs.

CGOs and so much more. If not, follow the tale of the last 10 odd episodes, late May to end June. Episode 600, of course, was the chief marketing officer of none other than Dollar General Tony Rogers himself. And now let's move on to this episode on my guest. Let me tell you something, folks. Walking into the studio today and seeing the sheer scale of what Mondelez is doing right now globally, it's an absolute madness. A little secret I'm going to give away today.

⁓ every year with Peter and I get to go to CAGNY and watch the senior most leaders, CEOs and CFOs present the outlook for the year. Peter, do you want to share what happens right after the Mondelez presentation? What do you do every year?

Peter Bond (04:25)

well, you and I go outside, we grab a couple of shopping bags that are on display, and the swarm of locusts that go after the table of all the treats that they've put out for everybody. There's kicking, there's shoving, there are children involved. Hopefully I don't hurt many of them, but it is one of the most iconic.

⁓ spectacles to witness. In fact, two years ago the Wall Street Journal actually wrote a story about this particular activity that happens every year at the CAGNY Conference. Sri, it is a sight to see. That's all I'm going to say.

Sri (05:03)

I know it's an absolute madness what I say, but Peter, I hope you bought your appetite for some massive cultural disruptions today. Because this one is going to read out the entire CPG playbook. There's absolutely nothing better than when a legendary powerhouse brand decides to stop running ads, starts actively shaping global pop culture.

Let's keep rolling because I know you've been counting on the minutes for today's guests. Today we've an absolute blockbuster of an episode. If you've been paying attention to the retail landscape lately, you know the old wheel driving brand equity is officially moving out the window. Brands are spending millions to capture cheap reach, but they're ending up completely invisible.

Because it it's missing that true authentic distinction. The question isn't about joining the conversation anymore, it's about actually driving culture and becoming an authentic part of it to help us cut through that noise, find the signal. We're joined live by phenomenal marketing leaders, steering the creative ship for some of the world's most loved snacking portfolios on the planet. He's currently the VP of marketing for none other than Oreos at Mandeleys, and he is the mastermind driving groundbreaking global collaboration that has the entire industry positive.

Fresh off their massive wins at the American Music Awards. His brand partnered with none other than Global Pop Icons BTS. Wait a minute. Did I just mention Cat Sign might have just won three there? I gotta see BTS from front row. So join us in welcoming to the CPG guys Matt Foley. Matt, how you doing, man? It's a pleasure to have you on the CPG guys. Thanks for joining us.

Matt Foley (06:29)

Thanks for having me.

Sri (06:31)

I'm sure you can tell by now I was really looking forward to this episode. So ⁓ in the digital liner notes, there we go. Matt, you can solve that for us. You know, we can always send you our address and we can have some goodies shipped out. ⁓

Matt Foley (06:34)

I know, and you guys are making me hungry with that story you're telling. I know, I can help.

Peter Bond (06:44)

We're we're

not above having merchandise sent to us. Do we did yet we love it all. We love it all.

Sri (06:46)

No, not at all. We're

Matt Foley (06:47)

We'll take care of you, for sure.

Sri (06:49)

humble people, simple. In the digital liner notes of this episode, of course, we'll include links to Mondelez's corporate websites for our listeners to access while we go on with our conversation. And of course, Matt's LinkedIn profile. So I'm gonna jump right in, Matt. And my first question for you is CPG brands love to do celebrity endorsements, but usually it's slap in the face on a billboard and calling it a day or a TV ad.

This Oreo and BTS partnership feels fundamentally different because it would build from the ground up. Can you take us inside the initial rooms? You know, I wish it was a fly on the wall. How do you pitch a collaboration of this magnitude internally to ensure it becomes a structural joint venture rather than a temporary marketing badge? Especially since it's a K-pop band, even though I would say they are the world's largest global band, first of its nature after one day.

Matt Foley (07:38)

So where this started was was probably a where you could guess. We were looking, you know, at Oreo, we're always looking at what's next, what's gonna be happening in culture as we think about a year or even two years ahead of us. And when we were, first hearing about the BTS comeback as as so many of their fans were, we knew that was gonna be a historic era in music, a huge moment that we're all experiencing right now, not just in the US but around the world.

And we thought first off that would be amazing, right, to be part of that. But then the next question is is why, ⁓ kind of as you were getting at and how do you do this in a way that's not just slapping a a logo onto something or forcing a partnership, but finding something really authentic. And as we started to do a little bit of digging and understanding of BTS and and the connection or potential connection with Oreo, we found out pretty quickly.

that this is actually a really popular snack for them today. And it was also for many of the band members something that they grew up eating in Korea. So when some of those stories were shared with us, it got us really excited about being able to build something truly from the ground up and get the band's involvement in it. Knowing that they were already, lovers of Oreo, how great would it be if they could actually put their stamp on it and get involved. So we

quickly once we knew that information, we quickly pivoted to getting excited about the cookie itself and not just the partnership and the other activities that we'll we'll get into today, but what could we do with the cookie that would get the band excited? You know, and that would be something they would be wanting to have when they're on tour, something they'd want to share with their friends.

Peter Bond (09:20)

Wow, that is phenomenal. I r I really like that. ⁓ Matt, welcome.

Sri (09:23)

You know what Peter, I gotta I

gotta ask Lara if she's actually tried one with the BTS logo on it.

Peter Bond (09:29)

I'm pretty sure she has, Sri. ⁓ you know, she's been in their company of late. I'm so I I wouldn't be surprised if they have they they probably brought some to the AMA awards, right? But anyhow, Matt, welcome to the podcast. ⁓ we're very happy to have you here. Let let's talk a little bit more because cause I think you kind of referenced it in talking about how you wanted it to be a product that they themselves would want to eat. And that really rings to product level authenticity.

Sri (09:35)

I last tonight and report back.

Matt Foley (09:43)

Thanks.

Peter Bond (09:58)

You didn't just change packaging, putting their faces on the outside, right? You introduced a completely unique Hotteok-inspired flavor profile and custom BTS theme embossments right on the actual cookie itself, right on the wafer. That is just incredible. From a supply chain and RD standpoint, I guess my question is: altering the literal stamp and the wafer formula of a multi-billion dollar brand is no small effort, right?

How did you manage those operational constraints to ensure that deep authenticity was physically baked in to the product touch point?

Matt Foley (10:36)

We did it the way that we we always approach these partnerships with with full commitment. And I think that what was different here was this is a global launch. So we have over 80 different markets around the world doing it. and that made it even more complex, as you can imagine, from an RD standpoint, because we needed that consistency across the world. So we actually had to bring together RD teams from multiple markets and multiple regions and work both globally and in the US to ultimately get to

⁓ not just the embossments as you referenced and and the color and other things that we want to do, but the actual cream and that cream flavor because it was something that we hadn't done before as a brand and was, a new flavor to to most people at Mondelez, ⁓ particularly in the US team. So just trying to understand how we could replicate that in the most appropriate way that lived up to the expectations of BTS, expectations of people that would be familiar with the flavor was a big

operational challenge for sure. And I mean, I think it's a pretty fun challenge when you think about what we're doing, coming up with a great tasting cookie. So but you can imagine the it took a number of rounds and we actually had the band directly involved from a taste standpoint. So we actually had, sent various samples through and made sure that BTS themselves were happy

With where this was ending up.

Sri (11:57)

Matt, I got the magic question for you then. Did you actually get to time spend time with the band doing tasting? Bah.

Matt Foley (12:04)

I didn't, but I know I'm sure people

did, but I I missed that opportunity, unfortunately.

Sri (12:10)

I will ask that question on your behalf next time if there's a meetup. But ⁓ physically baking in the authenticity, get the phrase, man. let's talk packaging and creative content. I gotta tell you, K-pop fans and the BTS Army, especially, is arguably I would say, the most visually observant, detail-oriented fan communities on earth, because I see that with cat's eye. They notice everything. You blink and they see it.

Matt Foley (12:13)

Yeah.

Yep.

Sri (12:37)

To the point where I blink and the fan base has something to comment on Instagram or TikTok on my feeds. How closely did your creative teams have to collaborate directly with the band? You started describing it to co-design the I want to jump to the packaging. You talked about the taste. And how did you ensure the digital content, which is probably one of the most important parts in launching anything these days, especially a SKU?

Matt Foley (12:49)

Mm-hmm.

Sri (13:01)

Is culturally native to the fan base than a forced corporate script that's very global in nature and kind of streamlined through PR.

Matt Foley (13:11)

A few different ways on our end. I mean, the first was just getting very familiar with BTS Army. And we had, folks on my end that were spending time just getting up to speed and and and getting into forms and seeing how they're communicating with one another, understanding different secret languages, secret messages, other aspects. There's so so many out there around BTS.

But picking up on as many of those nuances as we could was really important in the beginning. The next was trying to understand the what kind of, design world would would make the most sense and resonate for this fan base and resonate for the BTS themselves. And that part was really interesting because it was as much driven by

BTS and army, as it was the flavor and the inspiration of the cookie being from a treat that's available in Korean street markets and kind of a a street treat that you'd get with that hotok flavor. So bringing those two things together is what inspired what's actually in my background here, this kind of Korean night market as being the backdrop.

For not just the packaging, but also if you've seen any of the assets that we've released and some of the media around it, we've really wanted to create this immersive experience where we felt like we were bringing whether they're BTS Army fans or others, immersing them into this world of BTS, but specifically into this Korean street market field. It's very vibrant, very modern and cool. And I think ⁓ it resonated really well. And and it's given us such a unique

point of difference in the stores too because when we show up with this when we showed up at retail, not just the packaging but the point of sale, it's really different than anything else that's out there. certainly different than anything else we've done as a brand. And it's it's resonating really well. one of the most interesting parts of this project though was really on the the embossments of the cookie itself. So this was not just a, this was not a project where we sat down in our office and dec decided

at our headquarters, what what the best messages would be. This is where we went to the band. We went and looked at what the fans themselves and BTS Army was talking about and started to identify different messages ⁓ and symbols that were part of that language. And we validated that with BTS themselves. So that's why we landed on 13 different embossments that celebrates 13 years. ⁓

Sri (15:37)

thirteen.

Matt Foley (15:38)

Yeah, and this 13 out there, ⁓ which, has a reference to to thirteen ⁓ years of BTS. And then there's different, not just symbols, but there's different messages, and there's even secret messages you can create if you put together different cookies, which is something we knew would resonate well with Army. But at the end, I think between the embossments, the design, and certainly the flavor itself.

We delivered something that felt very much like the fans themselves had created it to really honor BTS.

Sri (16:08)

Absolutely fabulous story, man. I got a little follow-up for you. So you know when I get around in the industry a lot, people know cat's eye, but they usually tell me it's because of their daughter or their son. what about merchants? When y'all pitched the idea of BTS, did they know it at first spot or did you have to school them that this is the next biggest phenomenon since one day?

Matt Foley (16:30)

It's a great question because it it really varied by customer. Everyone seemed to know BTS, right? They just reached such massive start and whether you listened to them or not, you had heard of them. So that awareness was there, but understanding the relevance that they were coming back and that this was going to be a big moment that that took a a little bit of education with some of our customers. But I gotta say that BTS themselves did such a great job of the way they showed up in pop culture in the US.

from late night TV show appearances to so many other ⁓ places that they've been popping up. And then, you mentioned the their at the American Music Awards. Like there's just been one hit after the other that I feel they've been on the scene in a big way. So any ⁓ hesitation or any question was removed pretty quickly. But I do think because they were out, and they they hadn't toured in a couple of years, it did leave a little bit of a gap.

but once we educated our customers on on how big of a deal this was, that the ban was coming back, not just in the US but around the world, ⁓ the response was was pretty good and and and customers really wanted to lean in on this one with us.

Peter Bond (17:40)

All right, Matt.

On virtually every single episode of this podcast, Sri and I talk about this movement from a reach economy where it's just large audiences, to what social media has really tossed us taught us is it's a trust economy, right? It's creators building trust with their audience. So to win a brand has to go beyond a simple endorsement to build genuine, unconditional brand love. When you're engaging with a passionate, hyper connected global community.

community like the BTS Army, what are the strict guardrails for engagement? How do you prevent the brand from looking just like a cultural tourist trying to cash in on the trend and actually something that fits right in with the authenticity of of a brand like the brand equity in BTS?

Matt Foley (18:29)

I think

the biggest trap that marketers run into, and I've seen this too many times, is where you're trying to create a new behavior for this audience, right? Or a new ritual that perhaps isn't native to how they're behaving today. And the for us, we kept coming back to

Whatever we're going to do, and I'll get into some of those details in a second, whatever we're going to do with Oreo and BTS and how we want to engage this community, we're not going to be swimming upstream. you have to look at how are they engaging already? What are the things that they're getting excited about? How do they communicate with each other? ⁓ and even communicate with the band. And then what, legitimate role could Oreo play in that versus us creating a whole new behavior or a different experience that might.

derail that for them or force a behavior that's just not native to the audience. So in this case, the the good news with Army is there's a number of things you can look at. The one that really stood out to us that was really unique to this group is is around love letters. And they're known for writing just an incredible amount of letters that the band gets today, which I think is is so cool because you hear about that from,

Decades and decades ago with artists receiving these letters from their fans. And I think Army really picked up on this behavior, but does it in a ⁓ physical and in a digital format. So we thought we'd just try to amplify that, ⁓ make it even more fun and exciting and do it alongside this cookie release. And it worked out really well. So today we've got a we set up this kind of campaign. It's right on the package, actually. If you flip the the BTS Oreo on a

On its side, you'll see that we've got a call to action to be part of writing a love letter to the band. And we're collecting all of these on a digital platform. and we have a couple of surprises coming up as we start to get near the end of the campaign of what we're going to do with this. But ⁓ we're we're on this mission to basically pull together the largest collection of BTS love letters ever from the fan base and make sure that the ⁓ that the band is able to celebrate it. So

That was one of the actions that we took and and it's certainly been picking up a lot of traction because again, it's something that's already natural for that community and something they they really enjoy participating in.

Sri (20:49)

Peter, should the CPG guys be writing a love letter and should we be part of the surprise? What do you

Matt Foley (20:52)

Yeah.

Peter Bond (20:55)

I just want our faces on on Oreo wafers, Sri. I I I'm a I'm a very simple I'm a simple man. Just put my face on an Oreo, I'll be happy. But I don't know about love letters. But I I love what they've done. I think that's absolutely engaging and it really does create an it's an emotional connection to the to the fan base.

Matt Foley (20:59)

Yeah.

Sri (21:09)

That's the love letter right there, Peter. Absolutely. So the baseline

is cultural respect. So let's talk about setting a new standard for CPG partnerships. As part of a C-suite series leading to episode 600, as I mentioned, late May to late June. We sat down with Carnegie's SVP of Insights, Bob Nolan, whom we had seen present at CAGNI, and he talked about the validation trap, relying on legacy focus groups, copy test scores.

Because brand teams to play it safe and launch coding, predictable activations as the old way. What validation metrics did you guys rely on for a disruptive play like this? I'm sure walking in you do it's BTS is gonna be great. But ⁓ what did you rely on? Raw intuition, community behavior, like how did you get to the end zone saying this is the right thing to do and how are you measuring it today?

Matt Foley (22:02)

Yeah, we certainly ⁓ bypassed that that validation trap when we went through this partnership. And I'd say we've done it on on many others too, when we look at these big collaborations. because you can quickly find yourself making a series of rational decisions that then takes away a lot of that specialness and the the kind of secret sauce around what makes the collaboration and the and the activation so unique.

And so for us it is very much more intuition developed when I when we developed the marketing plans, how we want to engage. we relied in this case heavily on we were we were lucky that we had the engagement of BTS themselves, which is which always makes these partnerships so much more successful. So they were able to validate some of the, design, the design world, many of the even the love letter idea that I just shared with you. These things were passed through them.

to make sure they felt like this is something the fan base would get excited about. And ⁓ some of that was also tapping into our own networks of people. We have plenty of BTS super fans that work at Mondelez

Of course, there's a role when we get into paid media and we have s we have some paid media involved in this BTS partnership. Of course, we're we're testing that with consumers and making sure that it's effective and the messages are coming through and we're landing it's landing the right way. ⁓ but most of what people are experiencing around this partnership, and I'd say ⁓ many others around Oreo in the past are gonna be driven more through that intuition of

thinking about the fans, thinking about what excites consumers, what excites us as people that work on that brand and and going ⁓ going from there.

Sri (23:43)

A reminder to audience that we're speaking today with Matt Foley, Vice President of Marketing at Mondelez, and he is in charge of the BTS partnership for Oreos. So over to you, Peter.

Peter Bond (23:57)

All right, let's pivot to driving culture versus just being a part of the conversation. On the CPG Guys, we argue that scale without distinction leads to absolute invisibility. Oreo has masterfully moved from just running standard media flights to actively participating in major cultural milestones. From your seat, how do you define the ROI of a cultural activation? And how do you prove to senior leadership?

The driving culture ultimately moves product off the physical shelf and drives total trips.

Matt Foley (24:29)

So we

do it in few different ways. And we're very clear up front on these partnerships of of who we are targeting. You know, in this case, of course, BTS fans, but it's broader than that. We're really focusing on the younger end of our audience. Gen Z is, you know, broadly speaking, the the kind of sweet spot for many of the collaborations that Oreo is doing that are are culturally led. And the first thing that we're looking to do is is measure the impact with that audience. So

Of course, we can do social listening and look at engagement, but we even look back because of the scale of Oreo, we'll go back and look at household penetration and see if we move the needle with these audiences during the partnerships. And we've we've been successful with most of them having those types of results. So that's one is really making sure that these are not just ⁓ you know, exciting moments for the brand, but they're actually bringing in new consumers, recruiting in.

a key cohort for the brand and being very clear about that upfront. The second is, and and we know this from our equity work that we do ⁓ regularly throughout the year, is is that we we like to understand, you know, the impact that these have on cultural relevance and many of the questions that we'll ask in our surveys around that. And and we know that these partnerships will continually drive up those equity scores, really giving Oreo

a strong place in consumers' minds when they think about brands that are current. you know, in fact, one of the one of the measures that we looked at was how Gen Z consumers are ranking brands today. And Oreo today is a top 10 Gen Z brand, not just in snacking, but alongside any brands, which is which is you know something we're really proud of. And we know that these partnerships play a big role in that along the way. And I think the last thing for us is is actually.

There are sales metrics that are very important that are around these types of partnerships. So BTS is out there in stores across the country. It is limited time. So in a matter of weeks, we'll be, you know, moving through all of these cookies and the way they're selling through. we look at the velocity. We look at how quickly they sell through and we measure it almost maniacally, especially at the launch period. So for me, you know.

As soon as I have information to look at, and I was just doing this with my team last week, we were looking at daily sales in our biggest customers. And then we'll transition to weekly sales rates. And we know how important the first two to three weeks are of these partnerships to indicate the excitement and energy and pull through. So ⁓ also with you know, with Oreo having a history of doing collaborations over the years, we've got a lot of benchmarks we can look at. So we can look back at other partnerships that we've done.

you know, even recent ones like Selena Gomez or Marvel or Post Malone and get an understanding of how how the uptick looks and how quickly the sell-through looks on something like this relative to those other partnerships. So that's yet another way we can measure it. But it will remain an important part of the playbook for Oreo. And I think it's such a ⁓ you know, it's it's such an exciting part of the brand because we get to continually dream up what's next.

You know, and and find that next partnership or find that next opportunity that that keeps the brand top of mind. But also I think keeps our consumers and fans very excited.

Sri (27:46)

No doubt about it, Matt. And no pun intended here, but driving total trips is a music to a merchant's years. Get it, Matt? Get the pun. ⁓ but let's talk about the details of the retail execution side. When you roll out a massive global collaboration like this, retail partners like Walmart, Target, Kroger.

Will want to know how this will drive their specific digital and physical shelves. You've been measuring the outcomes you set on a daily basis, on a week, and then you'll over time transition to weekly measurement. But how do you translate the massive massive digital fandom of an AMA winning band into a multiple AMA winning band, into a tailored retail media network strategy that helps your retail buyers win their specific category goals? I'm sure you had a pretty in-depth retail media plan.

Matt Foley (28:31)

For sure. Yeah. And in this case, we, you know, we built out as as you could imagine, custom retail assets as part of our initial build out for the whole program that we knew we could take to many of the customers that you just that you just listed. And what was, you know, it actually starts to be successful to be really successful in this with retail media, with partnerships like this, you need to be thinking about that in the very beginning so that you're negotiating properly, you're asking for the right rights.

⁓ for pass-through and assets, because particularly when you're working with, you know, megastars like a BTS. So all of that was built in up front, knowing that we'd want to do something really special with our customers and be able to bring custom assets, ⁓ bring, you know, name and likeness into the retail environment in a very ⁓ exciting way. And I think our customers really appreciated that. So when we go to talk to

customers about something like BTS, we already had, you know, built out samples of what that journey was going to be like for the shopper when they came on, came online and and how we'd even catch them before ⁓ along the way and drive them out, ⁓ drive them to particular retailers. So the the last piece too, something ⁓ that I was really proud of that my team did is we put a lot of energy and effort into understanding how we could not just win

With BTS fans, like we've been talking about, but just win with general market consumers in the retail environment for this lunch. And this flavor that we've talked a little bit about, that's inspired, you know, by the band and is a popular sweet treat in Korea, hotteok ⁓ but the flavor itself is is this brown sugar pancake, warm brown sugar pancake that they serve on the streets in Korea.

And it's just this delicious, you know, tasty treat that is is is a new flavor, at least for most Americans. And we put a lot of emphasis in that in our point of sale, in our communications. So not just on the packaging itself, but if you see BTS either on a you know, on a dot com, on a retail site, or in store, you're gonna notice that we we gave the flavor itself a lot of real estate.

⁓ we gave it you know upwards of forty percent to fifty percent of the impact in real estate in store to make sure that again, whether you're a BTS fan or not, you'd be really drawn in by trying this flavor itself because we know flavor is is you know one of the most exciting things for Oreo and for our consumers. And that's really paid off. and we've you know we've heard it both from our customers but also from you know other consumers just with social listening that.

They're loving the flavor itself, regardless of BTS's involvement.

Peter Bond (31:25)

Matt, let's talk about data and the path to purchase. We keep talking to the industry about SASPOCalypse of data fragmentation and the rise of the agentic era, where AI agents might intercept a consumer before they even look at an application. When a brand builds a deep direct consumer emotional connection through music and fandom, does that emotional equity act

as a defensive shield against algorithmic curation, does genuine brand love, I guess I'm asking, make you machine immune? Or what are your thoughts on that?

Matt Foley (32:03)

It definitely helps.

That's for sure. I mean, the amount of organic content that's been generated since this partnership was launched has been incredible. And it's not just, you know, it started with people finding the cookies and posting about it, but then ⁓ then, you know, fans and and super fans going and also recreate taking the cookie as inspiration to recreate different things on their own. and it's you know, from a 3D printed version of the cookie.

⁓ to different charms and other things that have been made out of out of the Oreo cookie. And I think that content itself has garnered a ton of attention online. And then that can be one example of I think that, you know, real human connection intervening because that's naturally gonna feed parts of the LLM, right? Because of the amount of pickup that we're getting from a social perspective. But certainly not immune to the agentic error by any means. I think what we rely on much heavier now

And partnerships like this ⁓ give us a great opportunity to do it, is you have to be very aggressive in terms of getting the message out. You have to make sure that there are plenty of opportunities for people to read about the partnership. So we do very, you know, active press outreach and don't assume that even just the, you know, the fandoms and the organic social traction is gonna be enough to drive what, you know, what AI is gonna pick up.

So we overindex on that. You'll also see if you go into our website, you'll find that we, you know, we're putting quite a bit of information and QA and other details around the partnership and around how things are coming to life for the brand so that it's easily searchable, easily readable from an agentic standpoint. But you you really do have to go, I think, as ⁓ many brand marketers know today, you have to go out of your way to make sure that the message is out there.

And go well beyond just a press release or or social, you know, social media activity to ensure that it's gonna get picked up and easily noticed.

Sri (34:02)

All right, let's talk about machine immune equity, which you've broached the surface of Matt already. And Peter asked you the question related to SASPOCalypse. That is a powerful concept to think about as you build this out. but let's look out over the next, let's say, two odd years. Oreo has now set this incredibly high benchmark for what a deeply authentic co-created partnership looks like.

You know, to the point where I think merchants are going to challenge your competitors too for something like this. What does the commercial strategy do next when you already have set such a high bar? Are we entering an era where CPG brands behave more like entertainment studios, lifestyle platforms, rather than manufacturing companies just making SKUs and UPCs?

Matt Foley (34:48)

I don't think it's going as far as that that we'd we'd go to become an entertainment company. I do think brands have to be really dialed into to fandom, fan bases, consumers, of course, to understand where the passion points are, how they can be doing something that's really gonna surprise and delight the audience. And that's, you know, as we've talked a little bit about today, I think that's what makes this.

really special and and resonating more than just saying Oreo is working with BTS. You know, there's we're not the only brand to work with BTS, but I gotta say I think we're we're doing it in one of the most immersive and authentic ways you could. it it certainly helps when you can create a taste experience and people have actually get to, you know, indulge with the the partnership itself. but I I just think it comes back to some of the basics honestly that in that future state

You have to keep asking yourself, what is going to make the consumer excited? What do they, you know, what's happening in their world that I can tap into naturally and make sure that the role that your brand has is super clear. So for us at Oreo, our role is always around playfulness and bringing this boost of playfulness into people's lives. And ⁓ and we like to do it in a very unexpected way, right? So

We take that as our starting point and then really try to understand again, depending on the the partnership, depending on on the audience, what's gonna be the most authentic way to to you know intercept that audience ⁓ through our brand positioning.

Peter Bond (36:30)

Matt, I get the final question today. This has been a fascinating conversation. We'd like to send our listeners home with a concrete peak piece of advice. There are a lot of brand managers who listen to us. They don't want to play it safe. You know, the old days it was run your four FSIs and run your national television and and move on to your next brand rotation in the process.

They want to stop repurposing assets. They actually want to drive culture the way you have. I mean, I think about prior to this, I always thought that the Oreo Barcode program was one of the most iconic programs bringing us into the digital age. And here you come with BTS, and I'm just blown away by all this. What's the single biggest reality checker or piece of blind spot advice you can give brand managers looking to take a chance?

Help them modernize their partnership models.

Matt Foley (37:24)

I think number one

is you have to really understand the additive role that your brand can play for a partnership. All right. So that comes back to what I was just touching on, you know, talked about Oreo's brand positioning and the playfulness that Oreo brings to consumers. And that that really is at the root of our purpose, right? That we want to unleash, help people unleash play and playfulness in their lives. So

Number one is make sure you're anchored on that. And I know that sounds really simple, but it's, you know, it's kind of shocking how many times I've been in meetings or situations with different brands that I've worked on over the years where that gets pushed aside because you get so excited about the partnership and so enthralled about what's possible. we could do this, we could, you know, you start coming up with all these different ideas before you've you really you didn't jump off from what is it that our brand brings to the table.

what's that role that it plays in consumers' lives? So that's job number one. It's like anchor on that. The second is show up for the consumer, right? Put yourself into as much as you can, into the mindset of the consumer. Go back to under do you really understand them? Do you know them? Have you have you met them? ⁓ are you interacting with them before you engage in a partnership? don't just take, you know, someone else's word for it. Really try to tap in directly.

into that fandom when you're you know particularly when you're going to be working on a partnership itself. and I think you also the last is you've got to accept that these aren't perfect, right? You can't, there's a lot of things that are out of your control when you're doing partnerships, particularly celebrity partnerships or bands. You know, things can change. Maybe, you know, in this case things went are going fantastic. you know BTS has showed up in a huge way in US culture, but sometimes timing shifts.

Or other things, you know, I've had that happen on partnerships, right? Unforeseen things happen. and it may not all go down exactly the way or in the same sequence that you hoped. So I think accept that that doing any kind of big partnership is gonna come with some degree of risk, some degree of uncertainty, and just be willing to kind of roll with it and keep going back to those two things about what is my brand here to do for the consumer and and

Do I really understand what's gonna get the consumer engaged and excited and kinda getting in their mind? And if you kinda keep anchoring on those things, I think it it it lets you get through ⁓ to the answer pretty quickly.

Sri (39:58)

Well said indeed, Matt. Let me remind our listeners you can find all of our content by simply going to a web browser and typing cpgguys.com as the URL. If you or someone you know has something to contribute to this ongoing discussion with the CPG guys, please drop us an email at reach us at cpgguys.com. That's R-E-A-C-H-U-S.

at cpgguys.com to our audience we want to say thank you for the clicks likes comments dms meeting us at trade shows coming to our events recording episodes with us and to our sponsors we're always grateful for you because the show doesn't exist without all of you you work with us all yeah we're grateful to have you as an audience and partners thank you thank you thank you i'm still in disbelief i left a full-time corporate career to be a b2b influencer near full time

Peter, it's a pleasure doing this episode with you, but I want to hear your big takeaway on cultural authenticity and branding.

Peter Bond (40:51)

Tree, you you use the large language models as I do to help with a lot of the the pros that we we produce for LinkedIn and emails and things like that. And whenever I I ask an application like Claude to do that all too frequently, it spits back a

⁓ some language that involves the word masterclass and I always disregard it because I'm like I'm not going to use that word. That this was a masterclass actually. You know, Shree, I think about Christmas time, right? Right after Thanksgiving, you walk down the serial aisle and sure enough, one of the serial companies has done a ⁓ a licensing deal with one of the big movies, Rudolph Ralph, or something like that. And that's kind of like the extent of it. And that's that's really phoning it in.

What I heard from Matt today is just a completely immersive approach to taking the brand that the brand equity of their partner BTS and the brand equity that Oreo has produced and what it's known for and set the bar so high and is really elevating the level of engagement that that the consumers and it's building equity for both brands. This was just an

absolute masterclass in how to bring this to life to the benefit of both both brands in this equation. I was really impressed about our conversation, Sri.

Sri (42:11)

No doubt about it,

Peter. For me this is very simple. It's BTS. I mean, do I need to really say more? Like coming from the K pop world myself, I'm deeply immersed in the BTS army also because of Katseye I know the Hybe Korea people, I know the Hybe USA people. This partnership is a little bit iconic and I would say epic.

For those that don't understand it well enough, you've probably heard it on the show. And now as a merchant, you should be motivated to want to partner again with Oreos, maybe on the next thing, the next cultural phenomenon. That's what I'd say. So ⁓ Matt, I want to thank you for doing what you did, which is create this iconic product with the ⁓ band BTS, and then for joining us on this episode of the CPG guys. Thanks for joining us, man.

Matt Foley (42:56)

Thanks for having me.

Sri (42:58)

That's all we have for you today. We look forward to you joining us on the next episode of the CPG Guys.