Retail Media Breakfast Club's Kiri Masters - A Tale of Two Cannes (Lions)

KIRI 0:00

Hi, I'm Kiri Masters, host of Retail Media Breakfast Club, and I'm here with the CPG Guys.

PVSB 0:06

Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast, set at the intersection of commerce and tech. Your hosts, Shri Raja Gopelin and Peter V. S. Bond, explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in a digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG guys.

Sri 0:25

Hello and welcome to this episode of the CPG Guys Podcast. I'm, of course, Shree, your West Coast co-host and also CRO and co-founder of ThinkBlue Consulting, trusted partner on your Omnichannel, Journey where you can get in touch with me at Shree at thinkblueconsulting.co. Please do listen to my younger daughter Laura Jodabankatsi. We've now announced a full tour in the fall of Europe and US. This time it's arenas, also the Nordic countries. So I hope you are able to get a ticket. And I'm joined today by my East Coast co-host, co-founder, Mr. PVSB, who also Moonlight Industry and Client Engagement at Flywheel, the Commerce Acceleration Division of Omnicom. You're here at Cannes. We are actually wrapping up four days of hectic activation that included panels, meetings, podcasts, walking up and down the crust, 100-degree weather, yacht rides, yacht events, yacht parties, dinners on Dinners on La Plage.

PVSB 1:15

It was quite ex it was it was quite exhilarating, Sri. Indeed. But I I'm excited to be here, Sri. And who better to to to to take away our thoughts and ideas coming out of this great event than the specialist. The industry foremost and now reigning champion of the Rumble. The Rumble. The Royal Rumble of Retail Media. We'll we'll get to her in a second. But Sri, I always enjoy doing this. This is a big year for us at Cannes. We have a huge space. We did four major activations, recorded another 10 podcasts on top of that. It was exhausting, but I loved every second of it, and I mostly loved it because I did it with you, man.

Sri 1:56

And you realize it's not going to be any different next. No. Hopefully the temperature cools.

PVSB 2:01

Thanks for leaving me the hour and a half to walk up and down the quasat. That was just it was really wasn't an hour and a half. It was more like an hour.

Sri 2:07

But I had a premonition it's going to be 100 degrees and I saved you inside the AC atmosphere. That's how I think about it. Thank you for that. Let me thank all of you that listen to us and as sponsors. Without you, this podcast doesn't exist in the first place. Make sure you're subscribing to our podcast on your preferred listening platform, where you can get our latest episodes and go back to consume some of the 600 plus episodes we've already published. Episode 600, of course, was Stony Dodgers, the chief marketing officer of Dollar General. And we had a full C-suite lineup leading up to it, mid-May through mid-June. CMO, CEO, CO, you name it. We had him CRO, Chief Growth Officer.

PVSB 2:41

Now let me jump to our guest. Sri, by the way, we've done 600 and it took us six years to get there. Our guest does five a week. It's not going to take her that long to catch up on this. Maybe four in a week, but still, she's going to catch up. So she were 150 weeks. We're watching.

Sri 2:58

She's well on her way, so it's not three years, more like two now at this point. So let me welcome to the show none other than, as Peter said, a champion of the Royal Rumble of retail media. The boss herself's created an agency, sold it, and now having way too much fun with her own podcast, which I'm going to ask you to take a seat in the street. She's a legit influencer. Absolutely.

KIRIq 3:24

Thank you so much for having me. I don't have an abbreviated title, though. We come up with it.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Why can't we say the boss herself?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:35

Yeah. Yeah, that I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

The master's the boss of the world.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Thank you so much for having me. You know what? I've been in and out of your house at Cairns this whole week. I was a bit worried I was I was running over here for this. I had to grab some food because at Cairns it is literal feast or famine. There's days I've eaten nothing except half a bag of chips and some chicken McDonald's on the train. Other days it's like three-course meal back to back.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

She did the McDonald's. I did the God, you did. I did. Wow. And with no kids in tow. That's amazing. You know, then they're not going to be happy mommy left them and went. Okay, so when you go out when you do go out to dinner, here is my first question. Does it ever last less than three hours? I mean, speed is not primary element of dinner and can't.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

I don't have a problem with the speed of the food coming out. It's getting the check.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

Oh my God. It's like I don't want you to be. There's no way to be found.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yep. Yep. You know, I I do have to apologize to all of your lovely and loyal listeners out there because they're just thinking, crime your river.

Sri 4:44

First world problem. But but Kitty, so let's let's talk, let's jump right into that, right? First of all, let's acknowledge who Kitty is. It is no joke to curate an agency in the mid-2010s and then be able to sell it off and then now completely be able to get be in the middle of the conversation on retail media. You're one of the most sought-after speakers on the circuit, panelists, you know, call it what you may. Podcast is so meaningful, it's so concentrated on retail media.

SPEAKER_05 5:14

You must start your day with the with the retail media breakfast club. It's it's a quick hit. It's like boom, a double shot. Snackable. It's very snackable.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

You guys really appreciate that.

Sri 5:25

So there's no better person. We talked about who we should invite to kind of talk about how can 2026 went. And then what didn't happen? What didn't happen, what should happen with retail media. There's nothing to do with can. We can't think of a better guest for the episode. And both of us looked at each other and said, it has to be KMasters. And then I got the task of pinging you. Thankfully you didn't say no.

SPEAKER_05 5:46

We thought it should come from me because we thought you might say no to him.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So I believe it actually came from Suzanne.

SPEAKER_05 5:51

Yeah, that's that's how we got it, Sri.

Sri 5:54

That's how we got it. That's because now that we have an employee of the mix, we were disciplined, and Suzanne said, Everything goes through me, and we said we're better off to it.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

She's a taskmaster.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Yep. Yep.

unknown 6:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 6:06

She keeps us in line. The trains are running on time in Suzanne's work. Suzanne, shout out.

Sri 6:13

It's an honor to have you here in the studio with us to wrap up what we observed and didn't observe. Before we dive into the hard-hitting topics that we want to cover today on the closeout, let me tell our audience, please check the digital show notes of this episode. We'll drop the LinkedIn hyperlinks for Kiri, of course, as well as a link to the actual podcast itself. And while you're there, not me, but Peter insists you must smash that five-star eating either on Apple or Spotify. What's that about? Free.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

If you wanna you well, you wouldn't know because you don't eat meat, but if you were to get a hamburger, do you go to three guys? No. Do you go to four guys? My world's most favorite French fries. You go to five guys. Five is the number. Listen, the way our podcast gets found by industry contemporaries is the rating system. It's true. It makes us more findable as people go to search for things. So you give us a nice rating, your col share it with your colleagues. That's how our podcast and this community we've built continues to thrive. So smash the fun.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

I think we need a, you know, you have the uh the different national days, National Hot Dog Day. National Podcast Day, you know, national podcast. Can we do a national podcast review day?

SPEAKER_05 7:24

Yeah. This is the day. People get so much value.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

I think that we should start the trend. I will go and write podcast reviews. You will go write podcast reviews. We'll create a movement. I think that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_05 7:39

So you know that the CBG Guys every couple of months produces our its list of must-listen to podcasts. Okay. And and of course, Breakfast, the Retail Media Breakfast Club is on that list. So I'm thinking what we do is we publish our list and a CTA to on on the day that we've designated as National Podcast Review Day. Make sure with hyperlinks to each of them in Apple and Spotify, go write your review.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, you know what? We could have what you guys do. Amazing swag. I've seen your t-shirts, I've seen your socks. We could do some kind of swag uh giveaway prize. That's right. Take a screen because you've got to take a screenshot when you write the review, otherwise it disappears while we review it.

SPEAKER_05 8:24

Or we asked them to put a specific hashtag which we can go and search for in the reviews, and we know the date it was written and the hashtag that's going to be To me. It sounds like there's a plan. We're gonna figure this out, but I love this idea. There will be a award for a lucky, lucky winner or two. They'll get some really cool swag and we'll help create this and advance. Are we good enough for meeting bee? You don't like meeting people. That is true. You're kind of grouchy. That is true. I talk to the wall. I know. Or in this case, what is this called? A step and be step and repeat, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Oh learning so much. You know, my original pitch on the topic of this podcast is can we talk about like some behind-the-scenes podcasts?

Sri 9:09

Why don't we why don't we migrate there? So so let's get started, Kitty. Yeah. Let's talk about behind the scenes podcast stuff and then let's migrate into what we didn't see, what we saw here.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Okay. Well, first of all, one observation everyone has a podcast. You've seen there's podcasts that are popping up at activations. There is podcasts that are being done in sprinter events on the streets. I actually think that's a really good idea.

SPEAKER_05 9:35

What differentiates most of those from say what Retell Me A Breakfast Club or the CPG guys do? Well, she's the boss, so that differentiates everything.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Well, look, I think that there is no wrong way to do it, but you need to do something different and it needs to be consistent. So you guys are very consistent and you're very good at bringing in big names, profiles, you know, like a volume of content. You do things your way. My way is I, you know, I I had a interview style podcast previously. And when I was looking to start this, I was like, you know what? There are so many great interview-based podcasts out there. I don't need to do another one. We don't need another one with, you know, the same folks coming on. You guys do a fantastic job of that. And so I do more editorial POV. It's something that I have sat down and thought about, or sometimes this is actually a great format that I wish more people would do. Is I listen to sometimes it's one of your podcasts, other people's podcasts. I'm like, hmm, that got me thinking about this. And I'll take some snippets from that. I'll promote the original podcast, of course, and I'll say, hey, I listened to an interview with so and so on this podcast. Here's what I thought about. It made me think about this. Go have a listen. And then that's kind of like a curation as well, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

That leads to some further examination. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

That's right. And because there are so many podcasts, I think people appreciate that. Oh, I haven't heard of that one. I might go check that out now.

SPEAKER_05 11:11

You know, here's my take on I think I know it what it separates you and and I believe us as well. As so many of the podcasts that are out there are extensions of the business that they're selling.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

It's a blog.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

It's a blogger is not as strong. It seems to be just more a marketing channel. Sure. Not so much. Whereas you're not selling anything. You're not in in doing the the retail media breakfast club. You're truly trying to bring thought leadership to the industry.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

But I don't I don't think I had a blog for many years when I owned my agency. I had a podcast. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying it's different. But do so but do something a little different is the point. And and I don't see anything wrong with you know doing a podcast instead of a blog, but please do something different. Please do something interesting.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

And and and the other challenge is when it is a company-driven activity, it unfortunately refines the scope of conversation and tends to center around exactly what that company does. And that's limiting from my perspective.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Can I ask a slightly more awkward question?

SPEAKER_05 12:17

Yeah, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

The bigger the name, the bigger the company, the less they will tell you. How do you deal with that? How do you deal with that? You guys have a lot of big names.

SPEAKER_05 12:27

I'm going to say that there are a lot of people that come on and they're like, just ask me whatever you want. And on the fly, we had a CMO the other day, came on, and he's like, nah, I'm kind of yeah, I don't need to read your question.

Sri 12:38

So one thing we should share, Peter, since he asked us the one thing so we originate all the questions. We don't allow someone to give us a script. It's just not allowed.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:47

We we start now. Will they ask us, they'll come back and make my tweaks.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

But they they script their answers out there.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

Here's our belief on that. Yes and no. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Here's our attitude. We're not trying to be investigative journalism, right? We're trying to educate the industry. And the best way for that to happen is we are not, we are not, we're not even 30 minutes. We have by the way, we haven't been fired, we haven't been fired by the overlords. Yeah. So we're not investigative journalists. We are we are trying to educate the consumer, the consumers that listen to our podcasts, and we we do a couple things. One, we joke around, we kid with each other, because to some degree that's who Shri and I naturally are, but we also find that it's it's kind of like Mary Poppins, a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. Right? Some of the stuff you know we cover, it's pretty dry. I'm not advocating for sugar. And so we're not advocating for sugar, but the point is back to the actual scripted questions. We we want them to know what questions they're getting because we want them to come prepared with answers. We ask these the greatest gift that Shree and I have is as he said, we decide the questions. Because guess what? We're asking questions that we genuinely want answered, not questions that their PR has said, can you ask him these questions?

Sri 14:07

Oh, and rarely do the comms teams of some of these large fortune-fightered companies change our questions.

SPEAKER_05 14:13

Mostly that they'll say he's not, he that's not his area of expertise. Can you just remove that question? It's not for one like, no, that's an inconvenient. Now, if okay, so let's say we're talking to someone at Kenview and they're in the midst of being acquired by Kimberly Clark. We know we're not supposed to talk and ask questions about that because they're just gonna say we can't talk about that. Santa's we're we're smart enough to ask questions, and we've worked with enough corporate communications organizations that we know we know how this works.

Sri 14:46

Saying we're smart.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

And and it's just after six hundred episodes, like we were talking, we were sitting dinner with with some people last night, and we were talking about how much we love working with Walmart corporate communications, and they were aghast. They said to us, My God, we have such horrible time working with them. So we've just figured out how to do it. And and that, and a lot of that has to do with just your passion for the business, your appreciation, understanding what the people on the other side of the table need, and we find a way to make it work. And at the end of the day, if we're delivering meaningful, entertaining content that educates our audience, then we think we've done our job.

Sri 15:21

Yeah. So, Katie, I'm gonna migrate us a little bit into why we're here in the first place. You you and me and Peter are not gonna sit here and recap everything we saw, but let's just talk about some highlights and then also let's talk about what didn't happen over here but should have, especially with retail media, right? This is, I don't know, the fifth or sixth year of retail media showing up in a big way and owning a lot of the conversations, but it feels to me that the conversations still are not migrating. It's the same stuff. Let's talk about measurement, let's talk about incrementality, let's talk about data, let's talk about personalization, hyper-targeting. After COVID, when this started again in 2021, 22, I forget. Those were the topics. Why is it not changed? Did you observe anything different?

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Well, I actually think that we shouldn't stop talking about those things. I don't think they're ever going to be fully solved. And the reason why they're not going to be fully solved is that we're moving into new ways of acquisition, new ways of buying. And that means that we need to then go back to the drawing board sometimes and look at how we're actually measuring these things and doing personalization with AI-enabled shopping journeys being the big one. You know, this is the next frontier for retailers to think about. Well, how, if I'm not seeing that my AI referred traffic come in with any indication about what that conversation looked like before they landed on my site, what do I do with that? And how am I going to think about my ads business, which was historically so dependent on sponsored product ad units shown in the search results page from a keyword search, then we do need to rethink about personalization and measurement from almost, almost again from scratch, because the consumer journey has changed.

Sri 17:05

I think Kiri, what I was trying to say is not the topics need to change. I feel like they're talking, like you gave an example of if the consumer journey has changed, the way search has changed towards AI, that's what they should be talking about with incrementality. But they still go back to I don't know how to measure it.

SPEAKER_05 17:22

Share Shri, uh my bigger issue, and this is a component of it, is I still don't believe that while this place is populated with CMOs, that most of them ha have anything more than a cursory understanding of the of all the capabilities that retail media has and commerce media have today. They're still here because of the creativity awards, that it's still not part of their most of their DNA, that they are relying on agencies, they're relying on junior people to them. They I you and I've talked about it. I'd be surprised if 20% of them had TikTok on their phones.

Sri 18:01

So let me ask Kitty that question. This is the Festival of Creativity. Those awards are going out tonight, Thursday. 90% of the I don't know the exact number, so I'll make it up, but it's a very large proportion of the number that come here are US-based companies. Maybe global in nature, but primarily from headquarters. Most of them are either gone this afternoon or they're leaving tonight. They're not here for the creative awards.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

So it's there's a is it tail of two cans? Because I was actually just at the palais in the press room, rushedly trying to get it out of the case.

SPEAKER_05 18:33

Are you saying it's a semi-can kind of life room?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

No, I'm not going to use that line. That's uh I I can't take I can't take that one.

Sri 18:40

Okay. Uh but you don't like the semi-can, or you don't like the tail of two cans.

SPEAKER_05 18:44

There's two half seven.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

A tail of two cans.

SPEAKER_05 18:47

Tale of two cans, I'll go with that.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Can I can I keep that one?

SPEAKER_05 18:49

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Okay, all right, cool. So there is the brand can, and then there is the the the behind the scenes tech can. And I think they that they're here for different purposes, but there is a feeding frenzy mechanism happening. So the creative work that's being judged at the Palais that the CMOs are here for, and we have you know these amazing celebrities on stage talking about authenticity.

SPEAKER_05 19:18

Oh, the irony. The irony.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Talking about something that's been, you know, done to death and has anyway, let's move on. So we've got the we've got the.

Sri 19:26

I got a family of celebrities now, so I'm gonna plead the fifth on that one.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Sure. They're authentic, though.

Sri 19:32

They are that we wouldn't know any other way if you follow my Instagram or TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

So we have the the the brand awards that are also very heavily involved with the agency world as well. Creative production, strategy, right? So that is the the creative that we see. And then there is the part of advertising, which is which audiences do you then go and get that creative in front of? How do you know that it worked? What are the different formats? And so that is this sort of sub-ecosystem that I think kind of gets looked down upon a little bit. For me personally, you know, for better or worse, probably for worse, I would like to spend a little bit more time here. I don't, I don't see all of the brand stuff because it's not really my world.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

And I've only got so much time and attention that I can focus on. My my job is really more about that um distribution side of the creativity than the creativity itself. And so I therefore do not spend that time, much time in the palais. I spend more of it on the croissette talking with retailers and tech companies. I I don't think it's such a bad thing, but there is a that that is the tale of two can that we have the the brand and the actual deployment sort of sitting often away from each other.

Sri 20:49

There are thousands of people who come here for that second can that you and I don't get the chance to visualize. Oh native brand equity development.

SPEAKER_05 20:58

I would argue that this year reinforced it for me. Last year it was evident. This year just proved it, is that I don't think that the retail meeting, the tech side of it is necessarily in the background or in the underground of this. They are prominent components of the entire experience. Just walk along a croisette and see the tent activations, look at what's going on at the majestic, at the at the Maundrian. It's heavily tech focused, right? A lot of creators are here, much to my chagrin. Some of them a little too crazy as far as I'm concerned. But the point is, and in conversations we've had this week with at least four RMNs, they all confirmed, I put the hypothesis out to them and they confirmed it. They are now gravitating around two industry integrated events. One is CES, that's where they kick the year off, and Canada's where they do their mid year assessment and plan out for the rest of the year. They all come heavy. Like it used to be it used to be shop talk. It is not shop talk anymore. They used Used to bring their full cadre of senior leadership. Now it's a handful of people go to those events. They're really not going there. Can and CES are where people go in large numbers and spend the big bucks to activate against commerce media.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Possible as possible. Possible as immersion. That's what they said.

SPEAKER_05 22:20

That was what they said. Yeah. They said those two, and then they said possible as immersion. You know, I went to Possible its first year, and I thought it was such a dud.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:27

Because there were the only brands that showed up were on stage and they'd walk out of the green room to the Uber waiting for them and they were gone to the airport.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I think possible kind of it's like can without the Palais.

SPEAKER_05 22:40

The Fontembleau is not bad. The vanity component is missing. Top end of the Fontempleau, there's vanity amok all over that place.

Sri 22:48

No, the vanity component of the Palais, I was at the Palais, they were young. Oh yeah. I went to six boat parties and I collected a bunch of respettes.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

I actually mean more of like the creativity awards and like some of the workers.

Sri 23:00

If I flip back two years before retail media, retail media came to possible for the first time, only in 2025 in any meaningful way. But if you go prior to that, I was asked to guest speak several times at possible. It was always about a campaign. That's what all the conversations were about, a successful media campaign. So it was like the baby making off the big can creative campaign awards.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Okay.

Sri 23:26

This is more vanity about I created the best campaign, and here's why it was successful. And look at my impressions, and that's what it possible is about.

SPEAKER_05 23:34

So Kiri, uh I want to get a little behind the scenes on Can for you personally. Uh in the best of ways, Shri and I would say you are a hustler. You do a great job of building a business. And I was going to say, so tell us, you know, share with our audience what were your objectives here and give them a flavor for all the stuff that you were doing at Can. Because it's because you know, we look at you and say, wow, you you've built a brand around yourself and your podcast and what it takes to kind of grow that at an event like this.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah, I would absolutely. And then I want to come back to what you guys did at the CPG Guy's house because speaking of hustling, I saw you pulling out coolers and carrying trays and trying to fix the AV. So that's, you know, it's all we try. It's all relative. Exactly. Uh my can this year I was sort of locked in a bunker doing interviews a lot of the time.

Sri 24:32

Panels, I assume.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Panels. Uh yes, I I did a few panels. I actually have a really close collaboration with the drum, the media pub the marketing publication. And uh so I do I contribute a column there once a week and I work on a lot of sort of content projects with them as well. We actually have, speaking of podcasts, we have a short run podcast series that is that is sponsored by QSIC. It's a comedy podcast. It's called Basket Case.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

Now that's different.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

It is different, and yeah, absolutely. So that's that's a it's an eight-part, eight-parter. So we filmed a lot of content for that.

Sri 25:10

You know, there's plenty of comedy in retail media. Oh, you can't live.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yes. Well, actually, since you mentioned it, something that I have kind of fallen into recently that I have enjoyed so much and it hasn't received such a good response from the industry is short-form comedy videos about retail media. Have you seen things?

SPEAKER_05 25:31

No, I have not. We need to urgently procure these videos. Yeah, we've got to start because we want to contribute to the community.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

So it is, you know, we've talked about some of these silly things that we keep complaining about, why we're still talking about measurement. We talk about last touch up touch attribution, how silly that is. We talk about CMOs coming in and making up their own metrics that they want to see. We talk about brands telling retailers that they need this custom dashboard, the retailer goes and builds it, the brand never uses it. You know, there's all these things that we hear. That's a good one. Haven't got to that one yet. So I'd I turn these sort of annoying, frustrating moments that we have in our industry, and I'd turn them into skits, and it's really fun. LinkedIn. I have put a few on. I clearly don't spend enough time on LinkedIn stream.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Here's what you need to do. When you get to Kiri's page on LinkedIn, upper right hand corner of the bell, you change it from the page. You need to go to all was on, so everything's republishable. Make sure everything's republishable. But this sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Not all of it's good. That's the that's the thing. That's what I like to say when when people are, I don't understand how you do so much. Yeah, but here's the truth. Here's the truth.

SPEAKER_05 26:44

As an Australian, you may not appreciate this, but Shree does only because of his love of the game. Uh-huh. You can strike out two-thirds of the time and still make the baseball hall of fame, which we are going to visit in a couple weeks, in a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

That's the that's the beauty of algorithms, right?

SPEAKER_05 26:59

Did you do it? Just like that. Look, we have fixed it.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

So if you go actually down here, you'll see if you go to videos. There we go. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

There's some basket case.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Basket case is the new podcast with the drum and Q sick, and then there's some uh yeah, short form that I've been doing.

Sri 27:17

She's now lost in immersion looking at the comedy video.

SPEAKER_05 27:24

No, it's Shree.

Sri 27:25

It's not the CPG guys.

SPEAKER_05 27:27

That would be the third person. Sri is the first person.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Alright, now let's talk about CPG guys' house. Yeah, oh. This is the first time you did that.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

I believe it's called La Résidence.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Thank you for the courage.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

The house of House of Rights and Red La Residence. La Residence. So Shree and I have been coming to Cannes now prior to this three years, and last year we just said, okay, we think we've got a handle on what's going on here. How can we do something that fits well into this experience, but we do it with a little more independence and authenticity than everything else? Like you walk onto one of the big advertising hold co uh spaces on the Quazette, and it's it, you know, come on. It's all the they're just it's all about showing client love. It's just about showing client love.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

I mean, you know the game.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

I do, and and I don't fault them for that, but my point is I said, we've built a great community. How do we how do we partner with companies that are in our community and authentically help them tell some stories that we know are stories that are important to tell and bring the community together, not just to hear a panel, but to actually spend some time and interact? And we wanted to create one rule number one, location, location, location. What is the and we looked at it from a commerce media standpoint? We said, where does most money in a dollar go against commerce media? It goes against the people in Seattle. We made sure our residence was within a block of Amazon port. That was very important because you know that would be a central place for everybody to go. Two, we needed it to have enough indoor space to have conversations, but we also wanted an expansive outdoor space so that people could extend that out afterwards and have conversations. And and we wanted to work with inviting people on who are actually advancing some of the thought leadership, more cutting-edge aspects. So we kind of brought that all together and we said, we're gonna partner with different companies throughout as opposed to we necessarily own everything. We're gonna work with them because some of them have great ideas and great connections.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

And inclusively. And so what we ended up doing is bringing together three corporate sponsors and one community sponsor. And by that I mean we worked with eMarketer, we worked at Dollar General, we worked with CBS, but then we also worked with an organization that Shree and I are so happy to be associated and allied with, which is the women in commerce media. So yeah, and then you know, we had someone who who are you talking to? You don't have to name the names, but what did they say to you about the CPG guys' house this week? And we won't mention him. We won't mention him. But but this is a great story. But he didn't. The quote that came back to was he said, What's going on? The CPG guys really own the Quazette this year. So I I won't be able to do that. That was like that was high praise to us.

Sri 30:21

And some learnings. I'm not gonna sit here and say we were the best under any circumstance. Here's what we observed in the past few years that even prompted us to do the hustle, as you mentioned, Katie. We'd walk into all these, and I'm not gonna just call it whole coast. It doesn't matter who. Oh. Peter and I walked up and down those tents in the Crosshead. We've been to every art at some point, all 21 of that stand there every year. There's one side panel. I'm not gonna name a single that's my point. Is that no, we're not gonna name a single. But but generically, here's the observation. People use all those spaces for meeting rooms.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Yep.

Sri 31:01

Yeah. Get in a cool atmosphere to sit down, grab some snacks, get some beverages, booze, call it what you may, and then do private one one, two people conversations. There are panels running through the day. Like there's no I don't see a cohesive conversation. It's just panels running through the day. There's only fifteen chairs in front of those panels. And it's eight or ten people occupy them. Most of the chairs are empty, and people stand around these tables and are chatting, and it's so distracting. All that stuff is taped, 15 people panel watching the panel, and that's what they release is a big success.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

I know, but the when the you get the angle just right with the camera. Perfect. It looks like everyone is there.

Sri 31:47

You kind of have the three cameras, there's three cameras in there. It looks like I would I would hope so. That that's a key. What we wanted to do is create you know how we started this conversation? We're not talking about the right stuff. I didn't mean we're talking about the wrong topics.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Yeah.

Sri 32:03

We're not talking about the right stuff within those topics. So we were hoping to generate that conversation. Of course, Peter didn't uh and I did not anticipate. So many partners would want to be sponsors and owner piece and piece of piece.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Yeah.

Sri 32:15

All of a sudden we had like 20 pieces of conversation. My single biggest takeaway for the house of CPG guys next year, the CPG guys would put together the conversation, topics and source who should talk. Yeah. We had some over successful panels, and I think you know which ones those those were. You were on those. You when you had Andrew Lipsman, you and Sarah Marzano on the same panel, you just can't go wrong. But what if we had four of those? How would that have gone? We only had one of those. Why right?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Well, you know, it's very difficult because look, being a can is very expensive. We know you need to pay the bills. The the places down on the closet as well, they're they're trying to bring in business. They need to either get enough deals coming through in those private meeting rooms, or they can bring in panelists who are willing to pay to be there as a way to kind of fund that experience. It's a tremendous financial burden. Just a quick pivot though, what I think is very interesting is uh I find a very like the projection of wealth for service providers in your life, whether that's personal or or professional. If I have a private banker or insurance agent or something like that showing up with a crazy Rolex and a Ferrari, I'm like, this is where my money is, this is where my money's going. And I think what's very interesting about two retailers who showed up for the first time as media networks this year, yeah, showed up with like two or three people. Yeah. And that was GG and Costco.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Mark Williamson.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

And yes, exactly. And they're not here to kind of like have a cabana and say, guess what? We're revamped, we're big, we're going big. They're like, no, we're a value retailer. So I think it's interesting, you know. I love what you did. It's something new, it's something different. Obviously, people are stoked to be here. There is a, you know, there there is a cost associated with that. You have to find a way to pay for it. And then just seeing, like, who is here kind of being scrappy on the cheap and using that as a marketing sort of message.

Sri 34:27

I could not agree more, right? The thing, again, uh my head gravitates to last night, again, today's Thursday, the closer can. So Wednesday night, I spent three hours on some of the yachts last night. While those were yacht parties, I was able to have some very meaningful discussion with three or four CEOs and COs. Then they're attractive with service providers. And I asked them that very question. You know, getting a yacht is a $750,000 minimum commitment here for the and you have to take it from weekend to weekend whether you use it or not. That's just the way the model works. And so I said, first of all, you get done on Thursday, what happens on Friday and Saturday with the yard? And I said, we just casually hang out as a team, get a bunch of meals, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Yeah.

Sri 35:08

So the ROI for that, unless you're doing teamwork, which none of them really told me they are, it's just casual. You can come and go as you please on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And so I said, You all hosted a bunch of panels, you had a bunch of meetings. How did that go? Four out of four, four CEOs, a bunch of CMOs, four so these are all service providers, said the same exact thing to me. We couldn't get the audience or the people we wanted on our boats in our tent. It just became glorified meetings, and I'm not so sure I got anything out of it.

SPEAKER_05 35:40

Well, two things. One, and when they go to renew next year, will they remember any of that, or are they just gonna blindly go and say, yeah, we gotta do that boat thing again? I'd argue that. But for us, what we what I think made it very appealing for people to want to come and talk on our platform was the fact that post-CAN, that little conversation may appear in a LinkedIn clip somewhere, and that's about it. We recorded content that becomes a podcast that goes out to the CPG guys' audience, which is very large and very vast. And for them, that provided an additional amplification. It wasn't it wasn't completely about the people sitting in the room. Right. It was understanding that this message was going to be carried to a much, much larger audience.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Sri 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah.

Sri 36:27

What are your thoughts on that? You saw you at the CPG guys, I was like, as you mentioned a couple of times.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yeah.

Sri 36:33

If not more. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 36:34

It it kind of goes back to the question I was asking you before about, you know, you got a big name on the pod, and I under I I love your point about the questions, and those are important to you. You can't really control what someone says. Yeah, we can't tell. And, you know, you can be super prepared as an event organizer, as a moderator for a panel, and it does ultimately come down to who gets on stage and what they're allowed to say and how practiced they are at, you know, sharing an interesting message. And you guys would know more than anyone, there's a lot of terrifically smart, experienced, opinionated people in our industry that are not allowed to say. Oh, yeah, they're not.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

No, they're not.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

So that is that and and that's not gonna change that's not going to change whether it's a panel or a podcast.

Sri 37:31

Let's take incrementality for a reason. Incrementality is very important. It should be one of the hottest topics in retail media, no matter what trade event we go to, in my opinion. Right? We should do half a day of programming on incrementality and how to truly build what is incrementality. I get 17 definitions. People can't even articulate to me what it is. What do you want? Like, why do you say incrementality? So let's have that conversation. And then is there a common definition of incrementality and then hold those that sell incrementality against it? Hold them accountable.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Well, I think that there is a lot of playing nice that happens in public and and the real conversations happen behind closed doors. Liz Roche from Albertson, she is a she's a masterclass and she was telling me how you know you get the the data scientists from the retailer together in the room with the data scientists from the brand in the room. If they can sit down for six hours, they'll come to an agreement. Yeah. But then like doing that across the board for all of your big customers. It is and and that was actually St. Albertson's research that they did. She alluded to it on the panel, which found that depending on how you actually do the math, what does the denominator look like? Then incrementality can swing from positive to negative just based on what kind of factors you put into it. So again, I don't think that necessarily it's going to be a problem that is solved because every category has a different sort of attribution to it.

SPEAKER_05 39:01

I want to talk a little bit about your comment on interesting people not allowed to say things. And I've got two relevant stories that relate to my podcast partner in particular. The first is bitter and replacing the AI. I'm not at General Mills. This guy works five days a week. General Mills uh Sreed already started the podcast when he joined General Mills, and he made it a non-negotiable. I'm not giving up the podcast. And the CEO said, okay. But the head of corporate communications, after hearing of this Faustian bargain that had been uh arranged, added some caveats saying, listen, that's fine, but you can never talk about General Mills or mention that you work for General Mills on the podcast. That's fine. Okay, you're a corporate officer. Yep. They don't want association responsibility for content that they have no control in scripting. But the other one was the fact that he can't talk about the podcast within the walls of General Mills. And here's how that plays out. And we talked about this. There were um a lot of companies that we desperately wanted to get on the podcast. We wanted Meyer on the podcast. We wanted S. C. Johnson on the podcast. These are notoriously privately owned companies. H. E B is another one. We did get, we did get Natan, right? Oshwin. Oshwin. Yeah, the head of Martin. Yeah. But if you were to ask the head of retail media at Bayer, he would die to get on our podcast. We had to beg to get someone from Round El on the podcast. And this comes down to corporate policy. Who are they willing to let on the podcast? So back to the my thing on Shree. He wasn't allowed to talk about the podcast. And what would happen is Shree would get engagement scores from his direct reports up his chain of command. And invariably, some junior level person on Meyer, right, would some junior level, some junior level person on Meyer would write in that Shree tends to play favorites in terms of which of our retail customers he invites on to the CPG Guys podcast, having no knowledge of the fact that we have sent countless messages to the teams, and they just can't get permission to come and talk to the podcast. So if you're out there and you're listening and you wonder why we haven't had on somebody from a very big retailer or a very big brand, I promise you we've asked, and I'm telling you that they just won't do it. And that's their decision.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Okay. A couple of things to add on to this. Very interesting. I've also spoken with some senior people who can't do a traditional press interview with me because I'd contribute to these, you know, major press publications as a columnist. And they can't do the traditional press profile. They can do podcasts though. So there's a difference.

Sri 41:53

You're reaching the podcast, and that could be any less.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

It's the whims of the comms team, ultimately.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

Yeah, it really it's amazing how much corporate comms controls. Old school way of messaging.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Another one is I have uh you know made an editorial choice with my own publication. I don't really cover announcements.

SPEAKER_05 42:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

And sometimes I get sucked into covering an announcement. And it is always something I regret because I'll cover one retailer's announcement and then the next one will get upset. And why didn't you cover ours? You're not covering ours. And I I think when I explain that to people, they understand. But um, you know, it it it's look, I think you you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. Sometimes we're we're we're we're trying our best. I try not to play favorites either. Often it just kind of things happen that are outside of our control.

Sri 42:50

So we're doing a piece now for about a year. Every Tuesday, it's called the Commas Rif.

unknown 42:55

Okay.

Sri 42:55

So where Peter and I pick four newsworthy articles in the industry and we cover it in two, three minutes. We give our opinions on it. And we give our opinions on it. Now it's a 15-minute show, snackable. So the problem is we have to pick and choose. And in that algorithm of pick and choose, you we're going to disappoint somebody. But here's the good news, Key. It's our decision. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know where we started this episode was world's smallest violin about the food at Cannes. I think that's also you know, we have we have with great power comes great responsibility, right? Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is uh I know everyone's like, okay, you know, good for you, but uh it is it it is difficult. And sometimes, you know, what I try and do with my content is I have a POV, not everyone agrees with me. I understand that I don't like disappointing people or upsetting people. I'm sure it happens sometimes because I do want to share a POV with what I'm with what I'm doing by by default, that means. You know, might or not always be like super supportive or jazzed about an initiative or a change or something that someone is or isn't doing. But that is the, you know, trying to trying to keep it real and have have a POV. I think you're gonna disappoint some people.

Sri 44:15

What what do we not see at Ken that you were expecting to see? Or wanted. Yeah, you wanted to see. Or you wanted to see.

SPEAKER_05 44:22

What about you, Peter? I just didn't see enough of it. I spent this is the first year I spent most of it within our own activations. I honestly enjoy what we're doing. It is. I enjoy being I am in Malcolm Gladwell's vernacular, an archetype connector, right? So making those run-ins on the Quasette. I love that. I actually do. It's quite enjoyable to me. And to a lesser degree, I got to do it, and I curated some of the people that I was able to do that with here at the house. But I I do enjoy doing that. And this is the first year I really didn't get a chance to engage in that kind of open collaboration and connection. What about you, Kitty?

SPEAKER_00 45:01

There are a couple of standout events for me that were very that that were standouts because they were refreshing in their approach and POV. And that is the the rumble we talked about. There's like a silly debate that I've done for two two years now with Andrew Lipsman and Colin Lewis. And it's not an academic debate. It's name-calling, hair pulling, dirty, you know, like just we gotta attend this next time. Yeah, it was kind of more like a roast. And that's that's a fun format.

SPEAKER_05 45:30

Well, we like it because yeah, we know you're scrappy and you've got a low center of gravity. You can take those guys. I mean, it was easy to crush them.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Okay, you can you can try next.

SPEAKER_05 45:40

There we go.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Um and then the other one was uh we did uh with the Women in Commerce Media Collective and uh Fluents. Yes, the retail media couples therapy. And we had it was sort of like an improv session where we had someone playing a brand, someone playing a retailer, someone mediating the troubles and dramas of these relationships as a therapist. And that was a really fun format. Again, not educational. We weren't there to teach anyone anything, but it helped people kind of feel like okay, they're talking about stuff that I understand. There's lots of inside jokes that makes me feel part of the club.

Sri 46:18

But do Mew acknowledge that there's couples therapy needed in putting a dart on the board.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Yeah, yeah. So that that was really fun, and that's what I would love to see more of, not just at Cannes, but at other industry events, is do something silly, make fun of yourself. And I not everyone is in a position to do that. That's why people like Offs who don't who who have a little bit more flexibility and leeway and what we can say and we can make jokes and things like that. Well missing.

Sri 46:50

As Peter said, I don't know, fourth year, fifth year doing this. Now I have a no I'm coming here truly as a I don't know, is it a journalist? You know, call us what you want, podcaster, commentator. Yeah. It's different than coming here with a brand lens from my prior life.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Yeah. Do you find that hard to switch off?

Sri 47:06

Not not the least.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

It's dead to you.

Sri 47:09

I'm done with my corporate life. I can just be as honest as we can make fun of ourselves, can't we, Shrek? We have to have K hold this one of these. One of these.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

There we go.

Sri 47:19

What do you think? There we go. This was that we love making fun of it.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

I love how cheeky you look in this. He's quite cheeky.

Sri 47:27

Do miss that we're not going inside the ballet. The other side I can. We have completely blinded. We're so focused on commerce and commerce media that we're blinded. This is about the festival of creativity.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

I'll give you a how much longer before and will commerce dominate can. It already is.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

No, you know, no, you need you need the little fish to get the big fish to get the big fish. So you need to have the brands here to get the retailers here to get the tech partners here.

Sri 47:56

The sanity of those awards is what brings the brands in the first place.

SPEAKER_05 48:00

Given the fact that commerce is so prevalent and that where the budget sits, are CCOs missing out, not coming to CAN, a chief customer officer, the head of sales. Okay. Because if you think about it, outside of Amazon and outside of Walmart, most of the retail media investment is handled by the customer teams.

Sri 48:21

You're asking a very important question because traditionally, as Kiri just pointed out, the whole reason brands come is the campaign award. Right. Right? Creative awards. Historically, that's the way it's been for well before my my whole thought on that is even to the day, it's just the brands that are coming. No commercial team outside brand and brand leadership is coming, even though there's as Kiri started this, there are two cans, the Taylor two cans. The brands used to come for the erstwhile tail of can. They still come for the erstwhile telecan, and now they're being forced into the second can, into all these detailed media discussions. Some have control, some don't, some have budget, some don't.

SPEAKER_05 48:59

You needed to see call call out to CCOs. You need to come to CAN. Give it a try. You're going to find this to be extremely enlightening. And there's a lot for you to delve into here. It's not just about the media awards, the creativity awards, you can send your colleague, the CMO, to those, but you should be here for the commerce conversations that are taking a lot of people.

Sri 49:22

So the feedback I still get from many CCOs to the day is oh, that's a marketing vanity Boo Haha conference.

SPEAKER_05 49:29

Except the fact that all of their retail customers are here, as I mentioned earlier. All their senior people are here from a media standpoint. They need to be here.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

And also the the other thing for retail media networks, they're sort of done with the performance budgets at this point. I think they are, and they're trying to get into the national brand budget. That's why they want to be here as well. It's like we're not just about sponsored product ads. We can also, we've got these audience segments you can activate on CTV and and all of that.

Sri 50:01

Well, well, well said indeed. So I think that's what's missing from me, this that ability to see that other tail of the can, go to the palace, sit down and actually watch someone speaking. By the way, the times I have done that in a past life, those are fully attended. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Yep.

Sri 50:18

And and there's another important tide rising, which has been for the last five years, and I think all of us talk about it passionately on the different places we we have exposure to to go speak, whether it's podcasts, panels, things of that nature, journalism. And that is the rise of the digital creator. There are thousands of digital creators here.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 50:37

Most of them what's parapsubis, taking photos of themselves and looking well.

Sri 50:43

They're the ones who move units these days.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Sri 50:47

Really interacting with them or paying attention to. So I'll call it the tailored three cans, and that's how I'll close my thing.

SPEAKER_05 50:53

Kiri, thank you for taking time out of the close of Can Lions 2026 to spend time with these old crot curmudgeonly pop podcasters. We appreciate your fresh perspective on this event and everything. You so love me.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Thank you for having me. And you know, this is a really good discussion, I think, around the horn about what we all weren't. This is we are all also new media. Yes, we are new media.

SPEAKER_05 51:18

Old guys, new media.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Yeah. And so this is it it is interesting kind of walking around and seeing how content is being done and thinking about like what does that look like for us as B2B media companies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

Please uh subscribe to the Retail Media Breakfast Club podcast. It's on every podcast platform that is known to humankind. Kerry, thank you again. Shree as always, this journey is meaningless without my best friend on it. So I'm grateful for your camaraderie, your partnership, your big head. Papa Entourage. Papa Entourage and to our audience, thank you, the 45,000 followers on LinkedIn who like, engage with all of our content. We are not a community without you. And uh we are grateful for all of your engagement. If you heard something in today's podcast you think was interesting, drop us a line, make a comment, whatever. We we listen to it all. We really do appreciate it. Until next time, uh, this is PVSB signing off. You have been listening to the CPG Guys podcast. Goodbye.